When hiring new salespeople, one of the most telling tests you can give them in order to find out how their instincts are is to have them “Sell you” a random item, then grade their performance.
I use this test in all of my in person interviews for entry level and experienced salespeople. I never assume that just because you have experience selling something that you actually understand HOW to sell.
I surprise my candidates sometime during the normal interview questions like “where do you see your career heading”, set the stapler, mouse, pen, cell phone, coffee cup, sunglasses, or whatever I have laying around on the desk in front of them. Then I point to it and say. “Sell me this stapler. Go.”
I’ve repeated this test hundreds of times over the years and more than 80% of all candidates regardless of previous sales experience immediately pick up the stapler, tell me it’s a great stapler, tell me that it doesn’t jam, and will be a great purchase for me. Some go on for several minutes extolling the virtues of my Swingline, and tell me how durable, long lasting, and versatile it is……… without ever asking why I want the stapler, how I’m going to be using it, or even remotely paying attention to my “needs” as a customer.
The candidates that go on to be superstars, are usually the ones that look at the stapler, and say to me, “What will you be using your stapler for Mr. Kaufman?“. That’s the instinct that I look for in a salesperson. A focus on the customer’s needs instead of the sale. The other candidates that get past that test are the ones that realize the mistake they made, can explain it to me, and get it right on the next try without coaching.
I know this sounds like such a simple test, yet it has an 80% failure rate. It’s not a substitute for a complete interview process, but it’s one tool that I think every sales hiring manager should be adding to their arsenal.
This test was presented in popular culture in the movie Wolf of Wallstreet – Jordan Belfort asking random people to “Sell me This Pen” however, the method presented in that movie was not effective in real sales situations.
Below is the transcript of the video version of this post:
Hi, this is John Kaufman from SaleCoachingLab.com.
Today. I wanted to go over the old trick question that you get in interviews…
People try to hit you with it all the time, “Sell me this pen”. Now when I’m interviewing salespeople, it’s one of my favorite questions to ask them. I absolutely love having people answer this. I usually don’t use a pen though because they’re expecting a pen. So I’ll pick something else. I’ll use something like Sell me the stapler… sell me this stapler.
I’ll give them two three four staplers on a desk asked him to sell me one of them. Now. There’s a few things that I’m looking for here. Number one. What is this person’s mental approach? Are they thinking about selling me something in terms of features and benefits? Are they trying to take a consultative approach? Are they going to essentially hit me with a high-pressure sales tactic? Are they going to try to be my friend? Are they going to be efficient? Are they going to be slower? Detail oriented?
There’s a lot of things that I can tell about a candidate from simply asking them that particular question. Typically when I ask that question. I would say about 80% of the candidates that came into my office would take this stapler right here and they would say okay, you know what this staple right here. This is a fantastic stapler. You really need to buy the stapler. You know, what it can do you can open it. You can close it. You can spread it like this you can you can staple things together like that with it. You will staple paper it will staple cardboard. It’ll staple pictures together. You can staple, you know, all kinds of things.
I’ll say to them. Well, can you staple something to my wall? This the stapler doesn’t open. You can’t staple all the my wall with this. I say I really need a stapler that staples something to my wall. I don’t want your stapler.
This candidates now failed my trick question in the interview process and it really really could have been avoided. I always had a second stapler sitting somewhere. I might have this stapler here for instance. Guess what the one will do? It’ll staple on my wall.
There’s a very fundamental problem when you’re in sales and you start talking about the features and the benefits of the solution that you have without asking your client what they want or what they need what your quiet client wants and what they need, maybe two different things.
It may be the same thing. But if you don’t ask the right questions, you don’t know and you lose 90% of your ammunition that you need to have to sell that customer.
The customer or the Candidates that came in my office there were successful the candidates that got through to the next round the ones that were ultimately successful on the sales floor or on the phones or in whichever case. It was the ones that were successful very very consistently LEAD with questions. So if a candidate came into my office, and I said, “Sell me the stapler”!. and the candidate says Okay, John. What do you need a stapler for? Okay, John, how are you going to be using your stapler John? What kind of things are you looking to staple? This candidate was very very very likely to do well on the floor. Everything that happened after that was pretty much an Easy Flow. So if somebody asked me, what are you going to be using the stapler for?
Well, I’m looking to staple papers together. Okay, great. How many pages are you looking to staple together? 10 or 15? Oh, okay. So what type of things are you stapling together? Is it going to be thin paper? Is it going to be cardstock? Is it going to be something harder than that? See that progression of following up on the questions taking a genuine interest in what my needs were led to a further deeper more meaningful conversation that actually gives that gives that salesperson somewhere to go with this now if I said to that person if I said to the person well, I’m looking to staple things to the wall on my bulletin board. And they take a look at the stapler and they say wow. This staplers not going to staple things to the wall of your bulletin board.
But you know what sir? I have another stapler that may suit your needs better. I’ve got a power stapler. I’ve got something like this. I’ve got a small stapler. I’ve got something else in our inventory that we can special order for you that may suit your needs. Would that be an okay solution for you and then that gives me the opportunity to say yes or no.
Now in an interview, I might really really push it or in role play or, you know training exercises. I mean really push it and throw something really really off-the-wall it kind of candidate or a coaching client. But again, what I’m trying to do is gauge or teach an ability to think on your feet react to a symmetrical situations that you’re not really going to find in every single situation in every day life, but that’s going to allow you to sell at a higher percentage higher margins cross-sell or upsell and and do it really all the things that that make you successful in sales.
Now if somebody came into an interview and they weren’t expecting that question and they came in and said. Hey this it will this staples and cardboard old staple it. This is a great stapler. It’s really a good value. It’s really a low price and they’re shoving the stapler… they’re shoving it in my face and they’re they’re just really pushing at it. I’ll be brutal. I’ll hit him with every objection.
No, I don’t want the stapler don’t want it. Don’t want it. Goodbye. They cannot overcome my objections. Now I’ll go through that one time and then I’ll pause and I’m and I go to phase 2 .
Phase 2 is essentially how coachable is this candidate? So now I’ll sit down all say to them. Okay, so here’s what you did, right? You told me about features and benefits of this particular stapler you explain to me why the stapler is a good staple you explain to me how I could even use the stapler. But what you didn’t do is you didn’t ask me. Why do I want to stapler? What problem in my trying to solve now what I’d like to see you do as I like to see you readjust readjust your your approach here. T
ry it. Slightly a different way what I want to see you do is I want to see you. Ask me questions about my stapler. How am I getting using things like that now? Let’s start over. I would let him come walk out the door walk back in sit down and say okay. Now, let’s assume let’s pretend I walked into an office supply store where you’re working there and I come in and you see me by the staplers start now if the custom if that candidate comes back over to me says mr. Customer. Hey, look we have staplers here. We’ve got this kind of that kind of that kind of that kind. Now. I’m going to give them a completely different scenario on my side completely different wants and needs completely different objections this time, but what I want to see Again is do they come and pay we got all these staplers what 80% of the candidates again do on that second pass as they go to the stapler that I described wanting last time. They lead with that. It’s too late for that. You didn’t ask me a question. They take all the questions from that coaching. They they’ll go and they’ll try to sell me the stapler. I was looking in last time bad move what I want them to do and the ones that made it past that second try we’re the ones that absorb what I was really trying to get out them and they say, Hey, mr. Customer. Thank you for coming in today. I see that you’re looking at staplers. How is it that I can help you? What has you in my store today? And then I would say I’m looking for a stapler. Why do you want to stapler? I’m looking to fasten papers together. Okay is a stapler necessarily the right thing?. Where is another solution better for you? I want them thinking outside the box. I want them to expand thinking of other things. You may be able to offer that might be a higher. Margin the might be a larger solution or a better solution to the problem. Maybe I come in looking at staplers. But what I really want is a binding solution, maybe what I really As glue maybe what I really need is paper clips. You don’t know until you ask questions and if you sell me the wrong product, I’ll be unsatisfied. I’ll be unhappy. I’ll give you a bad review online. You’re not going to get referrals from me. All those things are not going to happen. If you don’t lead with questions that value my time, my needs my wants and then be consultative and give me a salute. solution based on that Now the candidates that came in got that after that was explained to him and then went through and you know followed that process on the first try or the first try post coaching rather those candidates the vast majority of time went on to be quite successful in my training programs.
Went on to be quite successful on the phones or in a face-to-face sales environment again, the ones that didn’t really didn’t get the chance because I’m not going to work with somebody that’s not coachable. I’m not going to hire them. They’re not going to be somebody that is successful long-term if they can’t take feedback and they can’t apply that so any time you’re in a in a interview situation. They say hey Pretend We’re on a cold call. Hey pretend were you’re cold calling me and you’re at you want to sell me a house you want to sell me Insurance. You want to sell me a car you want to? Any Consulting products anything like that? You’re in that interview process and they hit you with that the number one thing you need to do every time and I’ve messed it up myself and it destroys me when I do it, right? The number one thing you want to do is start asking questions. Discovery is the number one thing you have to do.
If you ever have this thing come up sell me a pen sell me a stapler. Why do you want the pain? Why do you want the stapler? How are you going to be using it if it’s again and Consulting in a Consulting interview? Hey, why do you why do you need IT consulting services? Who are you using now? How is that particular vendor or solution working out for you? What do you It was better about it. What things do you want to make sure that you have now that are present in your next solution.
See these kinds of things that give your customer a chance to understand that you’re listening to them your customer a chance to understand that you want to solve a problem that they have that they may be causing them aggravation emotionally. It may be causing them trouble financially. It may be causing them all kinds of bad things.
But you want to be that solution. Whether this is a real life scenario, whether it’s an interview, whether it’s a trick question. By leading with that it gives you the opportunity to be in a position that you can continue the process close the client and basically have a successful outcome.
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